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I know I've visited another blog of yours?

12:40 PM, 2007-Jun-22 .. Posted by Titus2woman

At least I think I have, and it's so nice to come back and read some updates! (((((HUGS))))) sandi

Unrelated Amy Question

1:59 PM, 2007-Jun-24 .. Posted by Lynne

Amy,
Ok, we need your advice again. Last week, my husband accompanied the Jr. High Youth group on a mission trip to NC (from MD).
A few weeks ago, our minister announced that our church is starting a "safe sanctuaries" system that is being initiated throughout the entire Methodist Church. Basically, first employees and then youth volunteers will undergo background checks.
Apparently the staff was done first, and it came out that our youth minister has had 3 moving violations within the last 2 years. Our minister then decided the YP could no longer drive any youth anywhere at anytime, including the church van. My husband was asked to submit his driver's license info for a check, and he has a clear record.
The day they were to leave on the trip, the YP came up to my husband and handed him the keys to the church van and said "you're it", meaning my husband was the ONLY driver for the entire trip. Then, the YP drove his own personal car to NC.
It was my husband driving, and a 20s female adult volunteer who did not know ahead of time she would be navigating (and who immediately said she did not know how to read a map). So, they got lost a few times during the week as my husband could not read the map or directions and drive a van (really a small bus) full of kids around.
The last night of the mission trip, the YP casually said he was "thinking of taking off early" the next morning and driving straight to the beach for a weekend beach trip and not going back to Annapolis with the group. Fortunately, one of the 6th grade boys said to the YP "don't you think the parents will get mad if you don't make sure we get back to the church safely?".
The YP then drove back with the group, but he took off for his weekend trip immediately, and when I got to the church my husband was mopping the bus and there was still one boy who had not been picked up yet.
My husband thinks the YP has an attitude problem since he has been banned from driving. Now, if the youth want to go anywhere as a group (which they do usually 2X a month during school year), there will have to be a parent available who has had their driving record checked out. Basically, being able to drive the church van is a part of the YP (which is a full time position) job.
My husband feels he needs to say something to our senior pastor about the YP discussing not even coming back with the group, and also there was room in the van for the YP to have travelled with the kids on the 6 hour drive up and back.
The way this worked out, there was only one person qualified to drive the van the entire trip. So, if my husband would have become sick, etc. they would have been in quite a bind.
My husband is going to wait a few days so he has time to think things over, but he does want to say something to the head minister. Your opinion?

In response to Lynne

12:59 PM, 2007-Jun-25 .. Posted by YPAmy5

Lynne-
I agree that you all should be in prayer over it. I also agree that it seems the YP was “miffed” about not being able to drive. Finally- I agree that the Senior Pastor should be made aware of what the YP did. He set a very poor example on the trip.
I never plan a trip without at least one back-up driver. If the trip is going to be more than 3 hours I make sure I have a 2nd driver per vehicle [If the trip is going to be more than 2 hours and we are coming back late- say after midnight- I make sure I have a 2nd driver per vehicle too.] There should have been back-up drivers/2nd drivers lined up for this trip way back in the planning stages. The YP should not have planned to do all the driving himself. You should also always take more than one vehicle on a mission trip or any overnite trip that is more than a few hours from home [in case someone needs to be rushed to the hospital or something or other- you don’t want to leave others stranded]. I also check to make sure my volunteers have good driving records- so I am glad to hear your church did this just very said to find out your YP has a poor driving history. For long trips, like mission trips, I like to have my drivers all be 23 years of age or older. For short trips, like to the beach, I will allow a teen who has graduated to drive his own vehicle with 2 conditions: 1- he has his parents permission and 2 no youth group member can ride with him (unless it is a brother/sister and again with parent’s permission).
From what I understand, your YP was in charge of this trip- the “Buck stops here” Head Honcho, as it were . . . . So here’s my 2 cents on that- The YP is in charge of everything- if something goes wrong he must deal with it and take any repercussions from it. He stays with the group- for example: if you are taking 2 vehicles and one is just for all the luggage etc. the YP should be in the vehicle with all the teens- this allows for more interaction and help with stopping any “problems” that may occur. The YP should have had typed directions to all destinations (there and back) and a copy of said directions for each driver.
I have no idea how the driving discussion between the Sr. Pastor and the YP went and depending on how it was handled there could have been hurt feelings and misunderstanding. That said it doesn’t give the YP any right to “shirk” his duties. As a parent I would be quite concerned about the YP’s attitude and if I would be seeing such behavior again when things “don’t go his way”.
Is it possible for your husband to speak directly with the YP on this? If a parent has a problem with how I have handled something with youth group I would hope that they would come to me first before “going over my head” to the pastor. This could cause more problems than it would solve. However, if your husband does not feel this would be successful then he must take it to the pastor.
Already this is affecting your trust level with the YP. As parents, you need to share your concerns. Please take care not to “discuss” it with the other parents lest the YP think you are “ganging up” on him. When your husband meets with the pastor he should share his concerns as a parent and as a “staff” member on the trip. He should take care not to make judgments but to state facts yet he should also share how it affects his view of the YP.
Ultimately, the YP should be apologizing for the lapse in good judgment and work to regain trust and regard. Bottom line: please pray for your YP- for growth and commitment and the ability to see his actions from another’s view point. Pray for forgiveness. Pray for your Sr. Pastor- that the meeting would go well and that the subsequent meeting with the YP would go as God directs.
This could be a very messy situation if God is not first and foremost in it.
I will be praying about this.

Untitled Comment

2:16 PM, 2007-Jun-25 .. Posted by Lynne

Amy,
Thanks for your opinion. We have not discussed this with anyone else as my husband wanted time to think about how he should address it.
The second vehicle was not for luggage. Everything and everyone could have fit in the church mini-bus. I know one thing that concerned my husband was that most people would need time to practice driving the bus, parking, etc. before driving kids around in it. My husband has had experience pulling large trailers, so he said he adjusted to the size and length of the church van, but he thought that if someone didn't have that experience they would have had a difficult time.
A situation did come during the trip where one boy got injured playing football and my husband had to drive him in the church van to the ER for stitches. As you said, that left everyone else without access to transportation. It happened at the end of the work day, after dinner, but what if someone else had needed transportation in their absense?
My husband said he witnessed the YP being very effective and doing a great job with the kids, so he wants to be careful about how he approaches what he saw as safety issues on this trip. My husband also thought the YP ( mid-20s guy) was miffed and insulted that his driving privileges had been taken away from him. My husband overhead YP talking to another YP and saying his tickets were "not that bad" as both speeding tickets were less than 10 mph over the speed limit, and the third was for rolling through a stop sign when he was looking for a house number.
Maybe even dovetailing with the new safe sanctuaries program, our church needs to have written safety standards for future youth trips where the kids are being transported away from the church whether for a few hours or for a week. I don't know if there are currently written standards.

Back to Lynne

2:51 PM, 2007-Jun-25 .. Posted by YPAmy5

Yes, I agree that driving standards should be set up. I do not know what the YP's dreving violations were but it could be what he said and perhaps it was an over-reaction that had him "yanked"? But that is for him and the pastor to discuss. It also matters how long ago these violations happened and in what context- were teens with him at the time? Are they more than 3 years old? Have they happened since he became the YP? And such.
I myself got a speeding ticket 3.5 years ago. I was by myself on personal errands but I was YP at the time. I was on a solitary country road and was enjoying the scenery and not watching my speed. It is no excuse and now I am much more careful about using my cruise control. So I know there could be an explanation for what happened and it could be as he said. It depends though on how long ago the violations happened and how far apart they are spaced. Still his reaction to it was less than stellar.
I, myself, had to drive a large passanger van on a youth trip before and I can say that you do need some practice before you attempt it. My teens still tease me about the 7 curbs I ran over (while trying to turn) on that trip. I am glad your husband had previous experience.
When I took my teens on a mission trip a few years back I made sure I was over prepared. Not only did each driver have a copy of the directions but also a set of emergency numbers, list of teens and a copy of each teen's permission slip/medical release form. Plus each vehicle had a medical kit, walkie talkie and flash light. I wanted to be prepared. My youth parents appreciated the extra measures we went to.
Your husband should make sure to share not only the safety concerns with the Sr. Pastor but also the good stuff- how effective he was and what a great job he did with the teens. Not only will it soften the blow but it will reassure the pastor that the YP is doing his job.
However, to be fair and as a YP myself, I still think that perhaps your husband should speak with the YP first (sharing his praises from the trip as well as the problems) and also tell him that he wants to bring the concerns to the pastor's attention.
Please let me know how it turns out.
And thanks for sharing/asking! As a YP- I know that sometimes what started out as a great idea quickly went horribly wrong and I also know that I've been blessed in my own humbleness and apologizing too!
Amy W

Thanks again

3:22 PM, 2007-Jun-25 .. Posted by Lynne

Amy,
I will ask my husband tonight if he thinks he should talk to YP about his concerns first. We are almost wondering if YP is going to be looking for another job after this driving ban. As I understand it, YP reports to associate pastor. Our much beloved associate pastor had his going away party yesterday as he is being promoted to senior pastor at a large church. The church had a cookout for him yesterday, and over 500 people came, brought food, and spent the afternoon together. But, YP went to the beach for the weekend instead. This just struck us as a little odd...maybe not, but we did wonder about it. I know YP is not on vacation next week, so this was just a weekend trip.
From what I understand, "safe sanctuaries" sets specific standards for background and driving checks. I do know all three tickets were in the last 3 years, and all were while YP was YP but to my knowledge none were with teens present. I don't think this is something where senior pastor makes a judgment, I think this is something more cut and dried where a certain number of moving violations within a certain time period bans you from driving the church vehicle or youth. I am also assuming that if YP went a certain time period without more violations, his record would eventually clear and he could drive again, I just don't know the time frame involved.
On a completely different subject, I wanted to tell you about my oldest daughter's reaction to the trip. A lot of the work the kids did was with a food bank. The food bank receives food that restaurants and grocery stores want to throw out. One job the kids had was to cull through mis-shaped sweet potatoes from a grocery store. Most of the sweet potatoes were rotten and maggot covered, but there were usable sweet potatoes mixed in, so the kids had to sort the good from the bad. My oldest daughter made several comments to me over the weekend as to how she never knew anyone could be so poor as what she saw on this trip. She also mentioned that many of the food bank recipients were old, crippled, and maimed people.
On Saturday night I made brown rice, one of my kids' favorite things to eat. I always make extra as they like to heat up leftovers as a snack. My oldest daughter had finished dinner, and there was about 1/4c of leftover rice on her plate. She asked me if I could save it for her. I told her I had made a lot extra, so I didn't know if we needed to save this small amount. She said she now feels so guilty about throwing away even a few bites of rice because she knows there are people out there who would love to eat her leftover rice tonight but who have nothing.