Thanks all. (ok, it gets a little nasty towards the end)
Thanks to all who have commented and sent messages. It doesn't change things, but I appreciate the well-wishes. I'll keep watching those blogs I truly enjoy. There are quite a few.
I'm not against all Christians. I'm not against most Christians. Just some. I have met dozens of really good folks here for every one who truly offended me. I am just tired of the junk. I am tired of seeing good people leave. I'm tired of the hate-mongering. It wouldn't bother me nearly as much if I were a faceless blog somewhere, and not part of a community like here. Someday, there might be a community who wants folks like me. That wants people like all homesteaders. That puts a higher value on what you say, than how you say it.
Not every one who talks about their beliefs, or God, or whatever, is spreading hate. Most aren't. Most aren't into personal attacks. But hey, the few that are, watch out for them. Your turn will come, when they find something you say offensive. What you might say doesn't have to be meant offensively, but they will make you cringe when they point their hate at you. They won't be happy unless they have an enemy to attack. Sometimes, they will use your name directly, mostly they won't.
From what people have told me, you don't even have to say all that much. You just have to be Pagan, or Catholic, or Agnostic. I have seen and heard of these folks leaving. Who's next? Lutherans? Anglicans? Who will be left? Just a couple angry people hurling personal attacks?
It may be worse elsewhere, but most places don't build the kind of community you find here. It hurts much worse when you have become invested in peoples lives. A small site like this, it's easy to get too involved. Few enough people here, so you can get to know quite a few of them well.
I will always be interested in discussing beliefs and philosophies with anyone who will approach it with an open mind, or a will to argue logically. Some of the discussions I have had here on messages have been very enlightening. It's a shame some may never be completed, even if they never really could have been. I never got back to answering some folks questions. And I haven't finished reading Ecclesiastes yet, so I never took back up one conversation I was really enjoying. Most of the other conversations were logic arguments. All truly enjoyable.
My e-mail is linked to my profile. If anyone wants to continue our conversations along these lines, I will write you back as I can.
If you just want to sling insults, I'm up for that too, in good humor of course.
If you spew hatred, you will be ignored, or worse. I might make you think.
Hey, for those of you who are good Christians, and you know who you are, watch these people who spew hate, and go out and try to do something about it. It's in the name of your beliefs they are representing to the world. And it doesn't look good to those of us who don't share them. They are the reason we don't. At least, they are the reason I don't.
Whenever, wherever I find hatred, judgment, bigotry, or any other nastiness, I'm just likely to see the opposite side of things. I don't ignore unpleasantness, it's not in my nature. Still, I get tired of it. Both on the part of me and others. Hey, I'm as much to blame as anyone. HSB has become a stress on me because of it. I don't like being angry as often as I have been in the last few weeks. There was a time in my youth when I would rally against any injustice with my writing. Maybe I'm getting old. Maybe it's getting old.
The decision to leave took a while in coming. It's almost time. There were several things that went into the decision, including tech problems and personality conflicts. Just a few more loose ends to tie up.
Just remember, no one made me leave. They insulted me, misquoted me, implied I am evil, made me terribly uncomfortable, and they will hold the door open when I leave, but no one made me leave. As such, nothing is their fault. Keep that in mind.
But why listen to me? I'm not even a Christian, so apparently I shouldn't quote scripture. Let me know when the Bible stops being the sole property of those who already believe. The quotes were not random, they were all about loving each other. Sorry if that offended anyone. I have already seen one blog post by someone who was offended by it. They call me out by name. I have done that once too, in response to a comment on my blog. To my knowledge, I have never read their blog before today. I probably never would have had it not been called to my attention. If I ever had, it just didn't interest me.
How do you get to be a Christian anyway? Some folks here (just a few,) make it sound like some sort of high-end country club. One that has no use for someone like me, or really, for most people. Although I would never belong to a club who would have me as a member, to paraphrase G. Marx.
WWJD? Probably not what I did (LOL.) What would you do?
To those of you who enjoy that sort of thing, you only have until Sunday to kick me on my way out the door. Enjoy. Maybe it give good people a reprieve for a couple days. People who actually care what other people think. I don't care what people think, mostly; I only care that they think.
Peace.
Raymond
i'm new
{
02:44
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
amogk
}
wish you would reconsider leaving.....after all, blogs are like television show......change the channel or just don' t click on.
Raymond
{
04:54
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
Chas
}
I am sure this is not coming out the way I had hoped, but anyways maybe you get what I am trying to say.
Blessings,
Chas
<i>Untitled Comment</i>
{
07:59
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
MrsBurns
}
It's not a high-end country club. It's very low end. That's how I got in!
Seriously, stay here and post and just ignore those people who historically have irritated you. I, personally, am here to learn about homesteading and as that is my goal, I do not spend time reading those blogs that aren't skill/experience focused.
I love Jesus, but I also have a vibrant community of believers In Real Life. I have a pastor who teaches me and other bible study teachers whom I know and respect personally. I find that I don't need the online Christian encouragement b/c I have it IRL.
Folks are going to post what they are going to post. The beauty of it is we can choose to read it or not. I think you're rural living experience has real value here and we can benefit from what you learn and vice versa.
If you choose to stop posting and "just lurk" on those you like, great and you are still welcome. I hope you know the gist of what I'm getting at here.
DeniseB
(Raymonds edit:
Thanks for the kind words. I am afraid it's not in my nature to ignore, well, anything. My edit to Cindee's post below states a couple of my reasons for leaving, as have several of my posts over the last couple weeks. I'm leaving for a lot more than just words of others. No one's words could make me leave anywhere. Except mine.
When I post the address to my new blog, I hope you come and check it out. Yeah, I'll still "lurk." But I won't comment or post anymore. I create chaos at times, and most of the folks here don't need that. Peace, Raymond.)
Edited by zoggypdx on Saturday, March 31, 2007 at 03:39
How to become a Christian
{
09:47
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
Pattisea
}
Just in case you were really asking how...
Patti
(Raymonds edit:
Thank you. While I am not at this time prepared to become a Christian, it's nice to know what it takes if ever I am. Some folks make it sound a great deal harder that the scripture you quote. Thanks for reaching out. Thank you. Peace. Raymond.)
Edited by zoggypdx on Saturday, March 31, 2007 at 03:33
your blog
{
10:03
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
mccrjill
}
<i>Untitled Comment</i>
{
11:04
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
KSC
}
P.S. - I am Lutheran...so I guess we are the next ones to leave!!
Edited by KSC on Saturday, March 31, 2007 at 01:08
trampled and torn
{
11:40
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
Cindeerella
}
Do not say there are good Christians and bad Christians, we are all bad Christians. The people who call other Christians 'bad Chrsitians' are just as judgemental or more so! I am guilty of that too!
You can read the Bible all you want, the more the better! What offended me is you claim to be a non-Christian yet you are using scripture to rebuke a Christian. If you aren't a Christian than you wouldn't believe what is written in there, the Bible is God's Word, it is holy. You cannot take some and leave some, you either believe it all or none at all. God says either be hot or cold or else He will spew you out of His mouth.
What I meant by reading it as 'a believer' is the Bible says as a person filled with the Holy Spirit things written in there hold more meaning, and things are revealed to you that aren't as a non-Christian.
As someone else said, I hope that as you read the Word the Holy Spirit will prompt you to take a step further and ask Jesus to be the ruler in your life.
I do not mind if you stay, in fact I would rather you did! Sorry you didn't like my blog, it is boring, but I like it!!
P.S. on 'the creator', yes, God is the creator, but you are calling Him creator because you don't want to admit HE IS GOD.
(Raymonds edit:
I am kind of curious as to if you have ever read my blog before the last few days. Some of the stuff I have written some time ago answers some of your arguments.
The Creator, yeah, it's just another name for God. I have no real problem calling it that. That-that-is, the universal wavelength, whatever. Doesn't mean I don't believe in it. I don't assign it a gender, so I don't tend to use terms like "God" or "Goddess." I believe in God, but no, I'm not a Christian. Why do you use the word "God," instead of Jehovah? Just curious.
I used scripture to make a point. If you read the post, and think about it, you might get that point. Would you prefer I used science to rebuke a Christian? Or the Quran? The dictionary? What do you prefer? You talked about freedom of speech on your blog post, which speech should I consider free to use? What speech should I consider your exclusive property?
I disagree that all Christians are bad Christians, but I think I would probably disagree with you on a lot of things. Even if the infallibility of the Bible is to be accepted, the people who read it are still quite fallible. Many will see in it only what they want to see, and then argue that the whole thing is true, and if you interpret it any different than them you are evil. When you read the Bible, does it inspire you to love others, or to hate them? How do you show that in your blog, your comments, and your life? When you are filled with the Holy Spirit, is it a spirit of avarice or one of love? If it's one of avarice, how is that Holy? But hey, I'm not a Christian, so why listen to me? And really, I don't even know you. You don't know me either.
I also disagree that if I don't find all of the Bible true, I won't find some truth in it. It's nice to see the world in such a black and white manner, but it's terribly unrealistic, at least for me. Since you don't want me to quote scripture, I'll fight the impulse.
You defended a friend. I understand that. I defend my friends too.
I do disagree that because they are just beliefs, they aren't hate speech. People believe a lot of things. A lot of those things are wrong, and even hateful. If you or any of your friends said that the holocaust didn't happen, or that slavery was right, or that some races were inherently inferior to others, I would argue against that point too, and I would consider it a response to hate speech. To say that anyone who doesn't believe the way you do is in the grips of Satan, well, it might be your belief, but it doesn't mean it's right. If it is, heaven will be a very lonely place.
It is easy to pick on people who don't believe as you do though. It would be a bit overwhelming for me, as I don't know if anyone truly believes as I do. Too many question marks in my mind, not enough exclamation points. I'm one of those agnostics your buddy insulted. Many of the Christians here have reached out to me, rather than insulted me. But hey, enjoy yourself. That kind of action has led several good people to leave here, whether you wanted them to or not.
I'm leaving for more reasons that people like you and your friends. Mostly, I'm leaving for me. I don't walk away from things I see as wrong. I wouldn't stop fighting the kind of blind, thoughtless, insulting people I find, no matter how rarely, here or anywhere. I also understand that most people here are really good people, and most of them don't want to see it.
Still, I am, and have always been, a bit of a muck raker. I couldn't leave without a few parting shots. Not my nature. The thing is, I'll be gone soon. People will stop reading my blog, and they'll move on. Maybe something I said will make them a better person, maybe it'll just make them angry, maybe it will just make them think. After tomorrow, they won't have to see my diatribes again, unless they really want to. It won't be on the "last 100" or anywhere else here. That is something they (and you) can look forward to.
The diatribes of you and your friends, they will still be here, won't they.
If my leaving makes this a better, more peaceful place, I have no problem with that.
What are you going to do to make this a better, more peaceful place? I haven't seen it yet. But then, I never really even knew you existed until yesterday.
I won't remove your comment. I won't complain to the powers that be about you using my name on your blog. If I were staying, I would go out of my way to show you how many ways you are wrong. Not that I'm right, but I'm not your kind of wrong. If you like that kind of discourse, my e-mail is on my profile. Since most people here don't want to see it, please take it there. Keep it public, and I will too, until I leave. 22 hours and 45 minutes.
Peace, even for you.
Raymond)
------Well, it is obvious I am wasting my time, so I will no longer....the whole 'do not cast your pearls to swine' verse comes to mind, but remember, 'strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.' Mathew 7:14 Actually, why don't you read Mathew chapter 5-7 and let Jesus (Your Savior, God, Jehovah, the Creator of everything including you) speak to you.
Edited by Cindeerella on Monday, April 2, 2007 at 01:09
Untitled Comment
{
07:03
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
Sweetmama2
}
Sweetmama
You will be missed.
{
08:48
,
Saturday, March 31, 2007
} { Posted by
maa
}
I have been bored with the blog here lately, a lot of debates going on that take up the the last 100 entry spots. This means I miss a lot of good post because of the others who are posting to cause a debate, which I am not interested in.
I am a Christian, I am not religous and I do not belong to a church club or church house.
The last time I went to a church house it was like a meeting with a club. It was time wasted on self pleasure, for those who enjoy musical entertainment.
They had a band playing and all the people of the church were waving their hands in the air and singing with the band.
I think it would be a great thing if these people were out helping a needy person, singing with an elderly shut in person(who is not able to go to a church house) or reading the Bible to them.
I just don't feel that it brings any glory to God for me to be in the church house on Sunday.
I live by the Bible and it seems to make everything in my life feel right.
I, as a Christian, am living my life for others. To serve others to do for others to be selfless and I think that is what being a Christian is.
Being a Christian, to me, is all about living to serve others and in return I am given more than I ever need.
I beleive this,to become a Christian all you need to do is claim Christ as your savior and follow his teachings, that's it. You do not need to attend a church house or church club, ever, or follow any rituals.
I think it will be a loss for this blog if you leave. Your writings are of great intelligence and I have enjoyed your posts much.
I do understand if you do leave.
maa's mom
What a shame
{
09:22
,
Monday, April 2, 2007
} { Posted by
meme21713
}
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